WICHITA, Kansas, August 14, 2008 - A Catholic school principal is defending her decision to implement an English-only policy at the school.
Three Hispanic families are suing St. Anne Catholic School and the Catholic Diocese of Wichita because of the policy. The families say it violates their children's civil rights.
On Thursday, the school principal, Sister Margaret Nugent, C.S.J., took the witness stand in the trial. She testified she started the policy because she learned some of the 6th grade students were making derogatory comments in Spanish. She said those students can speak fluent English.
District Judge J. Thomas Marten asked Sister Margaret if she sought the counsel of any parents, particularly of Spanish-speaking students, prior to implementing the policy. She answered that she did not.
He then asked if the policy had been modified since some parents had expressed concerns. She said that it had not.
Sister Margaret added that the reaction to the policy came as a surprise to her. She said St. Anne was already an English-speaking school. She said that perhaps she was insensitive to how some parents would react.
Judge Marten asked if, prior to the English-only policy, students could speak Spanish. The principal said that was correct, that no one complained about the Spanish language until it became an issue with reports of derogatory comments.
The judge also asked if the school considered any alternatives to the English-only policy. Sister Margaret then asked him if he had any alternatives to offer.
The judge clarified his question, asking if Sister Margaret had heard of or discussed any other alternatives to the policy.
Sister Margaret answered that her goal is the safety of all the children. She said the school has to be conscious of what's being said, such as detrimental and disrespectful comments. She said that disrespect is hard to take, that they know it's out there, but it's not something the school condones.
Judge Marten then asked if Sister Margaret felt she showed any disrespect to Hispanic students with the English-only rule. Her first response was that she is stubborn and the families knew they were entering an English-speaking school.
The judge said he understood, but then he asked Sister Margaret if she understood how taking away something that students used to be able to do, like speaking Spanish during school recesses or lunch, could be a sign of disrespect. Sister Margaret answered, "Maybe. A trifle."
After the principal's testimony, the lawyer for the families rested his case. The lawyer representing the school and the church begins his case in the morning.
Previous Report:
First day of testimony
***KSN Viewers "CHIME IN"***
Anonymous, Wichita: I am a Mexican American teacher, bilingual and Catholic. My experience in both public and private schools has been great, but I can say that the Diocese of Wichita has given me so much to be who I am today. Soon, I will begin a Masters program - thanks to a Newman program and the generosity of the Church. More importantly, I thank the Catholic schools for teaching me to love and respect others-- that does mean that we have to sacrifice some things, like speaking Spanish. I do love my culture and my language, but I love my brothers and sisters in Christ more. What would Jesus do? What is more important: the language or the respect for others? To respect others, I speak Spanish when I teach it in class, to translate or if everyone I'm speaking with understands it. If not, I speak English- It's the right thing to do out of respect! God bless America.
Anonymous: Referring to your news item about the Catholic Diocese lawsuit over requiring English only as language in school; is the school a private school, therefore can set its own rules and requirements? Even though it receives some public funding, it should still be able to do this. As a health care worker in Wichita, I run into this situation very often where we have patients that cannot speak English, and this can be very dangerous, often delaying treatment and care because we do not know, nor can we ask where it hurts. I feel that it is imperative that those that come to this country should learn the predominate language of the country (you wouldn't expect Mexico to require its Police, or teachers of the public schools to learn English, would you?).
Brad, Wichita: I agree 100% with St. Anne's English only policy. My mother lives next door to a lady who speaks only Spanish and no English. Her children speak English and Spanish. I have heard her children outside using inappropriate 4 letter words and the bad thing is that she can't even punish them because she has no idea what they are saying. This is why everyone should speak English. Yes, I know that it is not an official language, but if it was, I think this country would get along better. If I was to live in Mexico, I would make sure to learn Spanish because I feel I would be respecting the country and the people of that country. If someone comes to the United States from Mexico, they should have that same kind of respect. The most widely used language has been English since the beginning of this country and it should stay that way.
Julie, Wichita: As a Hispanic and former high school teacher, I totally agree with St. Anne's English-only policy. It is indeed the right of every American to speak in any language they choose. But what happens when a student uses that right to make fun of, degrade, or hurt another person? We wouldn't tolerate degrading language in English, why should we let it slide if it is spoken in Spanish or any other language? As a high school teacher, most of my students were not aware of the fact that I could understand Spanish. As a result, I overheard many students making degrading comments about their classmates, teachers, or myself, and was able to hold them accountable for their actions. Should they have been able to get away with it simply because they used a different language? An English-only policy seems to be a fair way to deal with such issues, especially in a school. Many of the conversations I overheard involved students making racist and sexual comments. I do not know of any school that would have allowed such comments in English. Is it acceptable for them to say such things as long as they use a language that no one else will understand? Everyone has the right to be treated with dignity and respect. If someone chooses to use their freedom to speak in a different language to violate basic human dignity, I believe that they forfeit that right.
Randy, Wichita: As I read through the statements of others I found that there was one item that has been lost in the shuffle. The Governor of our great state of Kansas signed a bill in 2007 that took effect in July of that year declaring that English is the state's official language. I do not believe that the Catholic Church that is providing a private school is in the wrong. I agree with others that have spoken out that if the students do not want to abide by a private school’s rules, they should attend public schools where the teachers and faculty are being trained for multicultural issues. This is not an issue of separation of church and state. This is an issue of the needs of the many, outweighing the needs of the few, which is what this country was originally founded upon. I do hope that we step back and remember that.
Anonymous, Wichita: I am a member of St. Anne's Wichita. I feel that the diocese and the church have more than accommodated the Hispanic culture at our parish. We have a Spanish Mass for them and we also have classes in preparation for Communion and to grow in our faith and our priest would talk in English and then afterwards take the time to repeat what he said to us in Spanish for those that needed it. I don't know what more they expect from us and our parish.
Anonymous, Wichita: I'm amazed at how many people are ignorant enough to truly believe that everyone in the United States should be speaking English. Yes, it makes communication much easier if we're all speaking the same language. HOWEVER, our country does NOT have a national language...hence the reason we're considered a "melting pot." In regards to people commenting on the bullying issue...all students should be reprimanded for bullying, and if a student is bullying in Spanish, then it's the bullying, not the language that is the issue and should be punished. As a teacher, I find it a shame that so many people seem to be holding this issue again the kids, when they probably had no control over where they live...as a society, it is our responsibility to give them an education (even if it means teaching ELL classes so they can succeed)!
Anonymous, Wichita: Many people seem to be missing the whole point. This is not about speaking Spanish as much as it is bullying. If I was to start using finger gestures to make fun of people or intimidate them I would be asked to stop. "I was just pointing" yeah right! We all know that kids will use common things and pervert them to bully or make fun of. We have all done it. Unfortunately, these kids and families didn't seem to get it until the school was forced to make a rule about it. Jibbernash ish flabben! You don't have a clue what that means but it could be really bad. Is it okay to say it or not?
Tom (shortened version of original email): I am a Hispanic, Catholic and a proud American. To the parents of this lawsuit: I implore you that as an American and as a Catholic, you need to abide by the laws and rules of this land. This is more than having a right to speak Spanish on the playground. The majority of people I know are tired of those who come to this country and become spoiled by the freedom that was won by others. America is tired of those who like you who wish to diversify and water down our laws with selfish viewpoints. America is a great place and diverse people made it so. There are many beautiful cultures here and no one is taking yours away, but at the same time those diverse Americans who by following the laws of the land have woven together what we are today, a great nation where you have the freedom to worship and be who you want to be. The fabric of our unity is woven together by all those who have come before us and have abided by the rules and laws of this land. This is not an unjust law that you are challenging, you need to know the difference.
Gaby: I would like to remind the ignorant of Kansas that our country does not have an official national language. I don't understand how a nation based on immigration and sharing culture has inhabitants who are so one sided and bigoted. English is not our national language and to assume and force all to speak it is wrong and disgusting!
Anonymous: Why is it that America is the only country in the world that seems to have a problem with immigrants speaking their native language? Could it be ignorance?
Jason, Wichita: I am appalled by the complete and disgustingly vast ignorance of the other KSN viewers commenting on this story. They pride themselves in this country and our great freedoms like free speech, yet they actually wrote that anyone who speaks another language should only be able to at home. It's completely ridiculous. They also seem to ignore that many foreign language speakers are at least partly bilingual and that they naturally choose their own language when with their own people. This is the same thing any one of those people making these comments would do if they had to live in a foreign country where English was not the official language. They also don't understand that Spanish language speakers don't expect us to learn Spanish. Where did that come from? I will also never understand playing the history or Constitution knowledge card, considering many Americans don't know this stuff as well as they "should." Apparently empathy is impossible here. Nearly 100% of the comments had the same egotistical theme.
Anonymous: English only should be upheld, because it does cause problems of "bullying" by people making slurs and bad remarks in Spanish towards non-Spanish speaking people. If we start at school, perhaps it will help eliminate some of the hostility in the work place, and it is a problem at large companies.
Adrienne, Wichita: I am embarrassed by the bigoted, shallow, and just plain ignorant reactions I have seen to this story. And I am embarrassed by the position my Church has taken in this situation. Why are some people so threatened by a few kids speaking Spanish? Why do we need to silence those who are different rather than embrace diversity? It seems the problem was not the language, but the attitude. If they wanted to stop insults and bickering, why not simply ban THE INSULTS in ANY language? That the ban is specifically targeted at Spanish speaks to me of blatant prejudice, and (legal or not) it is sad -- is this what the Church stands for? Now all the Spanish-speaking kids are paying for the short-comings and insecurities of a few. Sad indeed.
Betty, Augusta: This is America and we speak English. Next we have a lawsuit that our schools should allow Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Arabic, etc. It will get out of hand. If you want to speak your native language speak it at home! What's the big deal? You are in an English speaking country!
Anonymous, Wichita: St. Anne School has a policy against bullying and it is enforced by teachers, administrators and volunteers. This policy, as well as all St. Anne's policies, must be administered fairly. How fair is it when an English speaking student gets consequences for bullying, and the Spanish clique, speaking in Spanish, say the same derogatory remark, or worse, than the English speaking students, and don't get consequences? One cannot expect every volunteer (who by the way are 99% English speaking only), to learn another language just to stop a small minority of students from bullying. English has to be the only language, unless we want any "other language" speaking groups, cliques or gangs from planning vandalism, or worse, a killing spree. It CAN happen in Kansas, and has. I applaud the administration for keeping ALL the students safe.
Rosemary, Garden City: St. Anne's is a private school not receiving any government/state funding; they have the right to uphold whatever standards they want! It is a choice to attend this school and that should include abiding by the rules they make. In reality, a learning environment isn't as affective as it could be when everyone isn't speaking the same language. This isn't discrimination; this is for the betterment of everyone involved. If you have a problem with that standard, attend public school where they cater to everyone in fear of losing funding.
Anonymous, Wichita: People please understand is year 2008. Global Warming, Global Economy, Global Language!!!
Anonymous, Wichita (shortened version of original email): I found this funny and absurd, I'm sure Jesus is laughing right now how a Catholic school is preventing the teaching, education and social liberties among Childs. You know what I mean. If you go to heaven, I hope they don't ask you to know a specific language to enter. And how can you prohibit a child not to speak any language in the play ground by intimidation. The US is a great country, but look around closer and what you will see is people on every street from around the world speaking not only Spanish but every single language that is out there. And I can tell you that if you go to Mexico, you can speak any language, and no body cares. Not because you speak Spanish, means you don't love this country. Please do me a favor, stop the phobia and watch less TV.
Alice, Wichita: I completely support the Wichita Diocese's position. I lived in Mexico at an early age. My father was transferred to Merida, on the Yucatan peninsula when I was 7 years old. I can vividly remember my 1st day of school. I was the only American in my class, no one spoke English. Within the 1st year I was speaking Spanish, I had no choice. No one gave me any special treatments or made any special considerations, I was in their country so why should they. During my second year, another American girl came to our school. We were told by the school we were not to speak English at any time during school. By the time my family left their country I could speak, read and write in Spanish. So don't tell me "we are not being fair". I feel they should keep their culture "alive" but at home as I did when I lived in their country.
Jean, Andover: I loathe ethnic prejudice, but I do not believe that the school is discriminating against any ethnic group, but just trying to prevent exclusion of the non-Spanish speaking children. Schools must have rules to maintain order. When I was young I was taught that it was discourteous to whisper to one person in the presence of another, excluding that person and making them feel as if they are unwelcome or possibly the subject of negative conversation. Speaking in a language foreign to those present when all present are capable of speaking the same language is just as impolite. The parents would do more service for their children if they would explain and teach courtesy and explain to them that in a group situation, everyone has to give up some things that they want, to keep harmony.
James (shortened version of original email): I am very appreciative for the different cultures that we have in the United States, but these cultures need to remember that they are in the USA--and therefore, should speak the English language. They are free to speak their own languages in their own homes. I am not sure what the children's parents are teaching them by bringing about such a lawsuit. I do not think the school is discriminating at all by the request to speak English--they are just trying to solve a problem the best they can. It seems that the people in America do not want to live or abide by laws and rules anymore-no matter what the issue.
Dwight (shortened version of original email): It is a private school and should be able to set the rules for its organization. If someone does not like the rules they can choose to go someplace else for their education. The amount of money that is used for providing information in the second language could well be used in other areas. Tax payers should not have to pay this extra expense in public schools and other government programs. It would be nice to see the English language made into the "legal language of American." This is probably not very politically popular but would save the tax payers lots of money. (This would make a good story for one of your reports. How much is spent providing the Courts, Schools and other programs with information in different languages.) Our Representatives and Senators are suppose to be doing what is best for the United States not what will get them re-elected.
William: English Only! This is the U.S.A. I am American-born of German heritage & grew up speaking German in the home as our first language. First grade was tough as I had to learn English and the A B C's at the same time. Yes, it can be done at any age if you want to. Where did we lose separation of Church & state?
Mary Lou: I think the English only in the school should be upheld, but I feel that the school should be working on bullying by English speaking students as well as Spanish speaking students.
Cindy: About the Catholic church lawsuit - unless those Spanish speaking kids are in Spanish class, they need to speak English.........this is America and our official language is English.
Sheryl & Ron, Salina: We believe that if you want to live in America you should speak the English in our school. We don't under stand why our country should bow down to speaking Spanish everywhere; their country sure wouldn't do the same for us if we lived there.
Marty, Oxford: I find it kind of ironic that the Catholic Church takes a one-language policy when so much of the religion is based in Latin....The whole outfit needs to get with the program. We're not a one language society. It seems ironic that so much of the church is based on another language and then they take this English-only approach.
Anonymous: If English speaking people visit Mexico we are expected to either learn their language or use a translator. Why should it be any different for them when they come to the United States? It's unfair that Spanish speaking people can degrade English only speaking people just because we don't know their language. We were here first! Learn our language and use it to communicate with us or go back to a Spanish speaking country.
Cori: I happen to agree with the Catholic school's decision about English-only. The boy that took the stand today speaks English as a FIRST language, and Spanish as a second language. Bullying comes in many forms, and the school's decision to stop bullying in another language was a smart one. If the students can speak English, then they should have no problem with the rule.
Neal: I believe that the English only policy should be held because of the fact that this is the USA and if you want to speak Spanish go to Mexico.
Gloria: English should be the main language spoken in the US and our schools. I think it is great to be fluent in other languages, but English should be the US and we should be proud to speak it.
Sue, Wichita: I feel that all schools should have only English spoken. It is time for all to remember that this is America and we should only speak English. They can speak Spanish at home.
Linda, Wichita: More school districts and businesses should follow suit and apply English only policies. This is the United States and the language is English. you go to any other country to live & work and you learn to speak their language or you don't work...tell them to get over it and speak English.
Misty: Absolutely the diocese should uphold the English only rule! My mother-in-law came here from France not knowing a word of English. The very first thing she did was learn the language of our country. She was proud to be here and proud to learn the language. Anyone who comes here and doesn't want to or feel they need to learn to speak English should exercise another of our American freedoms and go back to the country that they are proud to speak the language of!! God Bless America!!!
Jenny, Otis: It's a private school and the private schools should be able to set their guidelines and if you want to send your child there.....follow the guidelines! I wish our US public schools would do this to. Want a foreign language class? Offering Spanish, French and German is common; I guess they could offer English for those that wish to learn English.
Cindy, Wichita: I agree with the Catholic Diocese of Wichita and their stand on the English Only Policy.
Hugh & Terry: English only.
Anne, Wichita: I agree with St Anne's, this is the United States, AND a private school where we speak English. The teachers who watch these kids at recess, on Church property should not have to learn Spanish to know that the kids aren't planning a shooting.
Amanda, Valley Center: As long as you live in America, I believe that you should learn the English language and I agree with the school of having an English only policy. In other countries you are expected to learn their language and there are no exceptions, it should be the same here. Besides you don't know what they are saying and for all you know they could be talking bad about another student.
Cora, Wichita: I agree with the Catholic Diocese of Wichita and their stand on the English Only Policy.
Steve, Pratt: I thought we had separation of Church and State? Why should the "Government" tell any Church what policies it can or can not have? If the Government wins this, should the file suit for prayer in public school???
Dave, Hill City: I think it's about time someone has the guts to enforce a policy like this. English always has been and should always be the one and only language recognized in this country. What language people want to speak in the privacy of their own homes is their own business, but any other language besides English in any establishment be it public or private should not be allowed. It only serves to segregate people and promote racial intolerance.
Janet: I think that people in American should speak English. People in Mexico should speak Spanish. It's that simple.
Cecil, Wichita: This is an English speaking country and in public or school English should be spoken.
Shirley, Wichita: This is a private school and as such certainly has every right to set their rules. If the rule is "English only" spoken within the total school arena, inside, outside and any school sponsored function, then that is the rule. Period. We live in a society where the rules are all for someone else. If the parents/students don't like the rules, go somewhere else. This isn't a moral right or wrong issue. It is a private school with the rules of the school.
Carolyn, Wichita: I hope St. Anne school continues with the 'English only' policy during school hours.
Nancy, Wichita: I can't imagine why the Hispanic parents think there is anything alright about their children, 6th graders (not toddlers), to denigrate other children in Hispanic or in English. I also cannot understand why Hispanic people think everyone should learn their language and allow them to be here indefinitely without learning our language. I wouldn't go to any other country expecting them to do that for me. It seems to me that in the good old days people who immigrated to our country had to learn the language, know the history, know the constitution, pass a test, and pledge allegiance to this country to become a citizen, work here and take advantage of all the social services. What happened to that policy?
H.D.: Good evening, if I recall right a few years back Congress declared English the official language of this country, that to me means that when the Spanish or any other foreign speaking people step out of their house or their car, it's English or keep your mouth shut. Any more when I go to the store I feel I'm in a foreign country, because I can't understand half of what is being said around me and it's time for it to stop. So yes the school is right to expect them to learn the language of this land and more power to em.
Vicki: In regards to the Catholic church having an English only policy I think it is great. I am tired of our country bending over backwards to Spanish people. In all the years of immigrants coming to this country we have never had to change our language to accommodate them. If you come to this country learn English like everyone before you had to. I think the church should have the right to decide what is spoke within their walls.
Barbara: The school is a Catholic school and had first amendment rights not controlled by the government. If they believe that it is important for their students to speak English so they can become successful members of the community then they have that right. If the parents do not like it they can send them to public school where they can speak their language and become a citizen that can not work at a good job. This country was built by immigrants that knew that to be useful and to succeed they needed to become an English speaking member of the community. My father was taught English by his brother and sisters so when it started school he would be able to success in school. We kept our German tradition at home but did not expect our neighbors to speak German to us but English. I think that our Spanish speaking families need to grow up and realize that they are in the US where we speak English not in Mexico.
Anonymous, Wichita: The school did the right thing. They made the rule in response to a problem created by the Spanish speaking children. The teachers and principal are responsible for what happens in the school. If they can't understand what the students are saying because the students are speaking a foreign language, then they can't do their jobs. Also they need to use English more so that they can become more at ease with it and be better able to communicate with others. This is also a private school and you are not forced to go there. As far as the children becoming emotionally distraught I have no doubt that most of it was because the parents put them between a rock and hard place. Instead of teaching their children that there are rules to be followed and wanting their children to be better able to communicate in this society they chose to teach them that rules are for somebody else and that you don't need to learn how to communicate in English. The parents are wrong.
Jewell, Wichita: This is America-We speak English here-If they don't like it, go to a "Spanish-Only" school! After all, we don't go to Mexico (or anywhere else) and expect them to change everything for us!
Mark, Wichita: The Catholic school has every right to have an English only policy at school (it is The United States). If bi-lingual kids want to speak Spanish, that is what after school, the weekend and home is for. Other bi-lingual kids (in something other than Spanish) speak their language at home and aren't suing the Catholic Church or school system.
